you had best not vote for santorum then he thinks we women should all be barefoot and pregnate i like barefoot and i love my kids and the govenment has no place in my bedroom for any reason

Sfinn ~
I do believe you know it's more than just having birth control not being covered by healthcare coverage...don't you Sfinn? I do believe changes have been addressed in which women are covered by the healthcare provider...

"Religious freedom is why so many different cultures come to our country", then tell me, Sfinn, why religions [other than Christian] are demonized in this country? [i.e. Muslims..]

"You have so much hate that you can't see how unreasonalbe you are." I am amazed that you can be so judgemental [especially as a 'Christian'. Why, in this country, has the a conversation been 'demonized' when one does not agree with another's view point? Was is it necessary on your part to use 'hateful' words ~ you don't know me, I just don't agree w/you? to prove what point?

I am glad you have been fortunate to pay for your life style choices; many are not that fortunate. Perhaps you should go outside your safety net and volunteer in areas where people are not as fortunate as you before you start judging others and their life styles...

Peace & Love..."This whole argument is incredibly juvenile" ~ interesting choice of words ~ again being judgemental? T

With the cost of $115.00 a year if you can't afford that ......

Susan, I was not "fortunate" to pay for my life style. I made choices. When I was 20 years old, living on my own and working as an assistant manager of a book store to pay for my college education, I made sacrifices. I never expected anyone to pay my way and let me tell you, it feels great and empowering to know I did it by myself. Free government money/help would never had made me the strong woman I am today. I also volunteer to help the community I came from (that less desirable neighbor hood you speak of) and help run a weekly soup kitchen in my new neighbor hood where every week the numbers of hungry that show up is steadily increasing week to week. I also buy gift cards from our local grocery stores to give to my children's school nurse to give to families in our district who barely make enough to pay bills, never mind buy food and clothing. Since I am so involved with charity, which by the way is run primarily by our local Catholic and Methodist church and Synagogue, I get frequent emails asking to help the elderly who have no to bring them to doctors appointments and visit their spouses at nursing homes or helping a young mother of twins so she could get some rest. Recently I received an email that a local family lost their father and had no money for cloths and school supplies. I, along with others in my community, bought Target gift cards. I also pick up food donated by Starbucks to bring to a teen homeless shelter a few towns away.

Unfortunately and obviously stupidity and ignorance are not illegal in this country. This debate has nothing to do with the First amendment or freedom of Speech. Its nothing more than politics and an attack on women and women's rights. The bishops are trying to blame someone else because their parishenors will not adhere to their policies and I think many of us are tired of this my way or the highway. If you don't believe the way I believe your wrong (i.e. santorum) and the guy that re wrote the ten commandments gingrich put an asterik by adultry.

I have no problem with that. I do have a problem with religous organizations going out into the secular world, operating business establishments that are not "religious" and then whining that their "religious freedom" is being infringed. Were the church only going to employ and insure catholics, no problem, but once they start adding folks with other belief systems, their "freedom" to force their inane superstitions on others ends!

Don't want the coverage, don't use it.
I'm sure, given enough input, this health plan could be dimantled piece by piece. I guess if enough people kicked and bucked in the 1930's we wouldn't have social security. Ask someone to give up their SS nowadays. We have to pay into SS; we would have to pay into health plan also. I know, the opponents are saying SS will be bankrupt in 20XX (whatever date they are using this week).

No one is forcing anyone to use birth control. The point it that it should be affordably available to everyone.

No. It's not.

It's about a business that happens to be run by a religious organization. Your religion is protected. You do not need a business, be it hospital or otherwise, to practice your faith.

There is no FORCING anybody to do anything. The church has a choice, stay in business and adhere to the law, or shutter every business entity and adhere to their PERSONAL beliefs.

You can't be denied rights you are not entitled to. I know you people like to annex everything in sight in *His* name, but your dumb fantasies have zero impact on the law. Everything a religion touches does not turn into church.

There is no war on religion. Religion is simply inventing crap to avoid the ever more obvious truth that the masses are tired of you cramming your beliefs down our gullet then running behind the constitution . Take your con job elsewhere. Nobody is forcing you to do anything that inhibits practicing your faith.

Prove you need a school to worship. Prove the irreparable harm that NOT having a hospital would do. You can't, because there is none.

Jack you are so right. It is government break down of the constitution.
All these bleeding hearts crying about their right of choice because it is theit body and want others to pay for their independence is sicking. Like one lady says I paid for my birh control while the other said I wasn't able to pay so I want all of you to pay for me to have sexual relations. Give me, Give me. Give me. Use a condom. Or keep your legs closed.

If religious organizations want to start dictating federal laws then they need to give up their tax-exempt status. I bet we would see them change their tune on trying to "govern" women's healthcare issues

and yet they have had birth control on their insurance policies for years without being so upset... and most Eupoean countries have it and no one from the Church is marching n the streets?????------seems more like a case of the Church invading politics than politicians invading the Church-- pimping out the Church for political advantage ?????

If religious organizations want to have a say in federal laws then they need to give up their tax-exempt status. It's a pretty sure bet they would not be so concerned with women's healthcare issues if that were the case.

It's a pretty sure bet that if religious organizations have to give up their tax-exempt status in order to legislate federal policy they would not be so "concerned" over women's healthcare issues.

Sfinn....in looking over these comments I find yours very interesting in your response to Susan. You have made a lot of assumptions about this person yet she has given you very little...if any....information about herself. Just wondering how you arrived at your conclusions. I also can't help but notice that some of your comments are...shall we say...not in keeping with Christian morals. Another words....hateful. I wonder if Jesus would approve of this type of rhetoric? I'm also wondering how you came to the conclusion that "other people" want YOU to pay for their lifestyle choices. That sounds like Rush Limbaugh logic.

Sorry Jack, this isn't a reply to you ~ this is a reply to my new BBF, Sfinn,,,

Ms. Sfinn ~ your arrogance, ignorance, lack of humility and lack of grace and wisdom can be understandable under the circumstances. However, for someone on a comment section to post the comments about me [when we haven't even met nor have I given you any information about myself] is appalling.

My suggestion for volunteering was not about your litany of 'do good acts', such as using your $$$ to buy gift cards for the less fortunate or driving senior citizens to their doctor appointments, or dropping off food at the homless center for teenagers ~ I had more in mind of you actually volunteering your TIME a few hours a week w/perhaps "Planned Parenthood" to understand who goes there and how they function before you 'bad mouth' this organization, OR maybe working w/abused women and children, OR homeless children...this doesn't require an easy charity gift of $$$ but it does help one grow and understand footsteps others take in this journey of life....

And darlin', there are hundred of people who have been on their own at a young age and have worked full time and finished their college degrees. Gosh, some have even had to raise three children alone due to a WAR; and gosh some have been diagnosed w/cancer and lost all insurance, and gosh some have helped their children go to college ~ YOU see my dear, I am not young nor have I lacked living life.I taught in a Catholic inner city school.

So you think this isn't about contraception. You're right, it's not. What it is about is allowing the Catholic Church to take away the right to all their employees to make their own decisions concerning their religious rights and health care decisions.

So you think we need to protect the tissue paper religious rights of the Catholic bishops. Aren't they the same guys who are protecting all the priests and bishops who have been raping our young boys for so many years? Are we to view them as the authority we need to listen to make moral decisions? Anyone who thinks they have the moral rights to tell anyone in this country how to live is as immoral as they are.

If churches cannot abide by the same laws in this country as other social service organizations, they need to get out of the business.

They do not need protected. We need protection from them and anyone who stands with them.

It is a moral issue - a moral issue that every family in this country needs to stand up against. It's every family's right to make their own religious and health care decision - not you, not the priest, not the bishops. We live in a democracy; we do not live in a theocracy.

You could look at it that the Government is taking care of it's citizens. Where as the Church just wants to control them. You could also look at it that if the Church doesn't want to do this, they can get out of the insurance business. No one is being asked to violate their morals,if you think this is wrong, don't use the benefit.
Maybe it's time for the church to move away from its archaic ideas and move into this century,like most of it's members have. It would be a lot easier to lead if they weren't so far behind.
I am Catholic by the way.

The Catholic hospital I use to work for had kosher meals, a Shabbos room, special entrances and stair cases for Shabbos, a kosher area in the patients pantry room and renovated a huge home just outside the hospital grounds so families could stay close over night because they could not use cars or money. I don't know about you, but our hospital seemed very accommodating towards other peoples religious rights.

And the next sect that wants to can decide they don't want to participate in this or that segment of the health plan. Put out a health plan. If the catholics don't want to use a particular benefit, then don't use it. If an employee of the catholic church wants to use that part of the health plan, he shouldn't have to go to the local priest to get permission.
Some of the priests should stick to what they know best.

I whole heartedly agree. Ola Abal

Robert, you are so right! Susan, When I was 19 and had my own insurance, because I worked full time to pay for my education, I went to my OBGYN for my yearly and to get my 12 month prescription for "The Pill". The office visit cost me $5 and the pill $28. I felt $28 was kind of a lot of money so I called a Planned Parent Hood and asked if I could fill my prescription with them. I was told that I needed to see their doctor, pay the $45 fee and then I would be able to pay $15 a month to buy 6 months of birth control with them. Between the office visit fee, the gas and time to drive many towns away every month (closest one I could find) just did not seem reasonable to me. My point....don't paint Planned Parent Hood to be all roses and sunshine and p.s....my step grandmother was a founding woman of Planned Parent Hood so don't tell me I don't know what I'm talking about when I say it's not necessarily quiet the picture you paint. Planned Parent Hood, like welfare, is more controlling then it is freedom especially compared to taking care of ones self.

Sfinn ~

Oh dear...you seem quite upset, Sfinn. I applaud your tenatious courage at the age of 19 and what you were able to accomplish and your persistence in receiving your birth control pills.

I had a completely different experience than you w/Planned Parenthood, which is unfortunate.

I don't believe I painted Planned Parenthood as "roses and sunshine", I do believe I asked a question, previously. I don't know where you came to your conclusion.

"....don't tell me I don't know what I'm talking about when I say it's not necessarily quite the picture you paint.." ~ Sfinn, I didn't paint any picture! Where ever did you come up with THAT conclusion? We never had this conversation ~

I hope you have a more relaxing evening ....peace & love....

Mr. Shields
My bible tells me, God is very poitical, in fact he choses the kings, if we are good, we get a good king, if we are sining we get a bad king. If we have a bad king we need to repent, and come back to God, then we will have a good king. It's in Daniel

Susie, you may be reading from the Old Testament and getting a lot of things related to the times. However, for people who purport to be Christians, Jesus' teachings should be paramount and hold sway. He specifically told us that things happening on earth hold little sway in Heaven. Turn our attention to what comes after this world's life, and focus on Heaven. Render unto Caesar, that which is Caesar's. It is a choice. Follow Jesus to Heaven, or stay here on earth and fight your fellow mankind. I don't have a problem with God choosing what happens here on earth. I have a problem with people purporting to do God's will and deciding that they know more than God does. Focus on what needs to be done on earth for the people that Jesus was concerned about - those who are the least among us. Believe you me, the politicians are not among the least of us.

MJ: please, please send those requests to GOP congressional people who are currently blocking any change to the subsidies for oil companies and the rules for oil speculators hitting them with large taxes for being imprudent with their manipulations of the markets. I think we could all go along with that. I think that the current brood of GOP politicians have an inability to be responsible. I agree, they should be reprimanded.

You and I control the price of oil. Some would like to think the Prez has the power. He doesn't.
We control the price when we buy gas at the pump. We control prices when we push a little harder on the accelerator, turn up the thermostat, speculate on oil futures. China, the next biggest user of oil, also has a lot to do with prices.
Did you know much of the crude oil brought into New Orleans and Houston is refined and shipped back out of this country and sold on the world market to the highest bidder? Is the Prez controlling that? If the Prez wants to control where this refined oil is sold and for how much, the refiner only has to slow down refining or bring it to a halt altogether until the price goes up. I guess the government could take over the refineries also. But the oil companies only have to build refineries in other countries, and stop importing crude here. This isn't magic. It's just the way it is.

I'm sorry, but that makes no sense. There is no assault by the GOP on women. In fact, there are alot of well-educated, strong women in the GOP that think "free" birth control is not necessary. Doesn't it say more about a woman's strength and education to be able to take care of herself? Strong women don't need the government to take care of them and they certainly don't give of themselves freely to just any man. Women fought to be respected and women today want to throw that away by fighting for something that just makes us look like were poor, little, helpless, sex objects again. Your idea of the strength of a women is so limiting.

Lisa, I'm so sorry that you feel that way. In the 60's and 70's I truly thought that we had won some strong points. This year I am dumbfounded by the GOP blatant challenge and, yes, War on Women. You think not - your right and your way of thinking are protected by the US Constitution. But, so are women's rights: how many states have passed laws pertaining to invasive intrauterine ultrasounds, despite being unnecessary; how many states have passed laws telling physicians to lie to their women re abortion; how many states have passed laws to make birth control illegal; how many states have passed laws taking funding away from female health providers like Planned Parenthood; Idaho state rep "women just don't understand when they have been raped"; TN state rep "women are like pigs and cows when it comes to abortion"; GOP prez candidate "when a woman is raped and gets pregnant, she should just grin and bear it" (paraphrase), and said he wants states to outlaw birth control; and TN (again) wants to publish the names and addresses of women gettting abortions of doctors providing these services. War on Women - women are raped; women are sexually abused; females are the victims of incest - all whether they are strong or not. Women often need help from other women. Period.

Any women at this meeting will be there by the direction of their husband. They'd like you to think they are there of their own free will, but we who have spent many years in these congregations know the truth.

congratulations! Great comment! Ola Abal (gender: male)

Jack, I'm gonna guess, in your generation, you went out and bought some protection, but didn't really like the way it felt. I'm also gonna guess you didn't offer to help her pay for the pill that made it so much more fun for you.

Gee "Sally", you sound pretty bitter. I'm guessing you want the government to pay for everything you feel entitled to have. In case you forgot, the "government" in this case is the taxpayer and payers who will be footing YOUR bill.

Tom, good point. But the government will never support or offer logic classes. Their goal is to keep the population sedated and unthinking. The more we have to go to them for all "our needs" ( housing, free handouts, food vouchers, health care, and birth control and many other services that most of us able bodied people take care of on our own) the more control they have over us which is their goal. We become their subjects not citizens.

Logic should be an obligatory class for all males, and obviously all females who feel inclined to join the GOP. Maybe you all would learn to be a team player in this country instead of fighting so hard to divide it - you all have used President Obama's election to let out the worst in a lot of you, and yes I'm going to use that horrible word - self-centered.

Hate to burst your bubble, Rich, but the issue over birth control being provided by insurance companies is in effect in 28 states already. It went into effect in those states under the Bush II administration. No protest then, huh? Isn't it interesting that you guys don't protest at all the Bush II policies - only when President Obama came along do you come crawling out from under your white robes and get all righteously indignant.

Poor Richie! Will you be happier with am extremely rich white guy (and certified lyer) in the White House? Ola Abal

President O is Killing(?) Assasinating(??) the American people???? What the HELL planet are you on?

Let's see - all these posts about "Separation of Church and State" seem to be a bit myopic. The church is running a business, surely something that is "State". If you want to play in the business world, be a business. If you want to be a church, you have every right to require your people to follow your tenets. But the two aren't the same.

This sounds like Ku Klux Klan! Ola Abal

No, what sparked the rally is a completely distorted and false image of our President and his policies purported by a corporate fascist regime through their purchased puppets Foxnews and conservative media. It is so sad to those of us who found it natural and just a normal process to fact check and research the propaganda presented by the likes of Rupert Murdock, Rush and the Kochs, that so many otherwise good honest hard working Americans fell victim to and believed without scrutiny. It's been shown through studies that people will readily choose to believe inaccurate or intentionally manipulated information if it suits their predisposed ideology and beliefs. Our only hope of preserving our cherished freedom and democracy is that those who don't let bigotry and hatred dictate their politics and choices prevail...

Oh ... your tune would be sooo different if men could get pregnant.

With that little bit of intelligence, I'd have to advocate that all women deny all men sex. Then the women won't get pregnant and won't have to worry about anyone making eye-rolling comments about their lack of morals. The aspirin between the knees doesn't work, by the way.

What does that have to do with contraception? What if the government outlawed icecream because we get fat? You'd tell them to bug off....the same is true with all of our lives...government bug off...do your job and protect us..after that..BUG OFF!!

My reply to Danno2281's comment, Don Ron, was to inform him that the only way women will not get pregnant after having sex with men (sooner or later - besides having a hysterectomy or a tubal ligation), is to not have sex - period. Ice Cream Don Ron? Hmmm. Well, since you're not a woman, I won't bore you with the little facts that these are women's rights issues - contraception, what we do with our bodies, how our bodies work, who gets to say what is done with our bodies; and that as long as males feel it necessary to tell women what to do with Our bodies and Our issues, I think we have a right to use any method possible to fight back - including using the government and the Constitution and the courts.

Thank you for the coherent, reasoned post.

The Ku Klux Klan again? Ola Abal

Perfectly and civilly said!

YES!!!

I'm older than 50 HS, and believe in forward progress, not backwards revisionism. I grew up in an age where a 19 year old woman could not get birth control pills from her family doctor - a request like that would be greeted with outright horror. A male could impregnate as many females as he could lie into his bed (or back car seat), and a woman who became pregnant would have her insurance on her car revoked because she was a "hazard on the road". (don't believe me, go to the California law books in the latter 60's and see the lawsuits about this issue, before the insurance companies had to give it up). The only problem that I see is that old, white, males are scared to death that they won't be the dominate force in this country any more. They are now becoming da da da dum - a minority!!! The horror, the horror!!!

Hmmm, who was that and from which political party was he who entered the White House with a $5.6 trillion surplus and walked away a short 8 years later leaving an $11 trillion debt and the economy in shambles? My, we have such a short memory...

Separation of church and state is the doctrine that this country was founded on, ya know. You can have any religious icon you want on public properties, it is only when one is denied over others that it is illegal, ya know. Many public institutes have chosen to have none over all - their right. Freedom of speech for everyone is recognized as First Amendment rights - says so in the Constitution, ya know. Nothing said about left, right, conservative, liberal, or any other political designation, ya know. I'd say you have just totally obliterated your whine about lack of freedom of speech by writing your above comment - freely, without obstruction, ya know.

You are aware that the Pedophille Priest issue was largely the media looking to create a stir. Right?
You're also aware that statistically, Pedophillia among ministers is primarily a protestant christian problem. Right?
You're ALSO aware that the Vatican DID take measures to correct this. RIGHT?

I'd strongly recommend you take your ignorance somewhere else.

Tell you what - you go to Ireland and tell them what you just said. That is a profoundly Catholic country that has been broken by the Catholic church and the pedophile issue. The country has quit going to Catholic churches - some churches are down to 1-2% of their parishioners attending because of this issue. There are several Catholic churches in this country that have gone bankrupt from having to pay off the victims of the priests. There are several Catholic priests who have gone to prison because of this issue. Manufactured by the media? Who are you trying to kid? The Pope wrote a letter to the Catholic ministry telling them to conceal this problem, transfer priests wherever to hide them, and deny, deny, deny. That letter was actually produced in a court of law. Hey, I don't believe that all Catholic priests are pedophiles, some preferred females who were older - like that Priest in Mexico who had a hidden wife and child. No wonder you wanted to be Anonymous - attempts to feed the people lies is not very flattering to you.

Pedophelia is rampant in protestant religion also but they don't talk about it they sweep it under the rug! It is just as bad if not worse .

To Rene lynn: Please post a link to a proof of your statement about pedophilia among protestant faiths being rampant and just as bad as Catholic churches. If it is true, so be it. But it does sound to me like you and Anonymous have just fabricated a situation out of whole cloth.

Anonymous, I don't think there is any factual basis for your apologetic post. The Catholic Church used official Church infrastructure to protect and hide pedophiles in their midst. The documents proving that have been made public. Bishops who were directly involved were moved back to the Vatican to protect them from legal prosecution
You have similar proof of others, for goodness sake make it available. Vague references don't prove diddly. We'll wait..

How do I get off this string? These ugly racist rants are making me sick.

HEY GEORGIA M - you should try reading before shooting off your ignorant mouth
Both PRES AND MICHELLE HAD THEIR LICENSES RENDERED INACTIVE BY
THE ARDC ... I AM SURE THAT YOU IN YOUR GLOWING IGNORANCE DO NOT KNOW WHAT THAT IS SO I WILL TELL YOU... THE ARDC IS THE AGENCY THAT WORKS WITH THE SUPREME COURT TO INVESTIGATE ILLEGAL UNETHICAL AND DISHONEST CONDUCT OF ATTORNEYS . THIS IS A PRETTY SERIOUS
THING AND IF THEY WERE BOTH BEING INVESTIGATED AND THE ARDC RENDERED THEIR LICENSES INACTIVE .... YOU GOTTA SAY WHAT DID THEY DO ... HER FILES WERE DELETED HIS WERE NOT . PRES O HAD HIS LICENSE RENDERED GARBAGE AND INACTIVE PREVENTING HIM FROM PRACTICING LAW CAUSE HE LIED ABOUT HIS NAME AND HIS DRUG USE

President Obama and First Lady Michelle Obama voluntarily retired their law licenses in Illinois in the early 1990's. Mrs Obama went to work for the University of Chicago hospital system and did not need her law license any longer as she was no longer practicing, and it is a common practice for a lawyer to "retire" license in situations of that nature. They no longer have to pay for annual filings, monthly fees, or school classes that they would have to attend. Please refer to the following: The rest of what you say is hogwash with a capital HOG.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/lawlicenses.asp

Normal: you're not.

Maxi: It's too bad you are so angry. It is not very flattering to you that you cannot hold a decent discussion without calling names, shouting profanely, and acting like a completely overwhelmed individual. FYO: Attorney Registration and Disciplinary Commission (ARDC) is the attorney registration system in Illinois. All attorneys in Illinois appear in their registration files. Their Mission: Promote and protect the integrity of the legal profession, under the direction of the Supreme Court, through attorney registration, education, investigation, prosecution and remedial action. They list current attorneys authorized to practice law, conduct seminars and publications and handle disciplinary hearings. In their files, Barack Obama and Michelle Obama appear as "Voluntarily retired". The Obamas voluntarily put their licenses on hold in the 1990's because they were not practicing law any longer. They chose to do this and not pay monthly and annual fees to the Bar Association, or attend seminars and classes all attorneys have to attend. They can reinstate their licenses by paying the filing fee.This rumor that you are propogating has been around for quite awhile and has no basis in fact. You do know what libel and slander and defamation are?

You do remember that President Barack Obama was elected by 53% of the people in 2008, don't you? And that we have a congress, house and senate, that are elected by the people? This is according to the Constitution of the United States of America. And that we will have another election in November of this year? There really is no avenue for a person to become a dictator in this country, but, of course, you are free to believe whatever you want to believe, even if you are a little misguided.

But the Government should not pay for your condoms, or Viagra.

Thank you for the kind words, Robert S. Love Beth Warren! Am a little too old to get into political troubled waters any more - couldn't take the truly disturbed things that people say! Go Beth! Go President Obama! Go Democrats! 2012 - the year of the Women!

hey jerry - WTF are you ranting abuot ?/ you sound like faith Va that idiot obamaGoon